Sex Education with LaDawn Lanier, M.Ed

Introduction
Maria Davis-Pierre:
Hello and welcome to the Autism in Black Podcast. I’m Maria Davis-Pierre, a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in the state of Florida. And America’s number one, autism advocate for black parents. I am the founder and CEO of Autism in Black Inc., where we aim to include the excluded. Today, we have LaDawn Lanier, who is a graduate of Temple University School Psychology Program, as well as a graduate of Widener University Human Sexuality Program. She has been incorporating her experience in this field into her practice, providing psychological services for a multicultural population and their families. As a full time school psychologist for over 20 years, LaDawn has provided a number of professional development opportunities, staff consultations, individual group counseling, and psycho educational led groups. I’m really excited having LaDawn on the show to talk about sex education in the schools, as well as the gaps that parents need to be feeling and having the conversations with their children. So I hope you enjoy today’s show.

Episode

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Autism in Black Podcast. This is a very special episode, and I’m so excited to have today’s guest on the show to talk to us parents about a very important topic. Today we have LaDawn on the show and I’m very excited. How are you doing today?

LaDawn Lanier:
Doing pretty good, actually pretty good. I’m happy that I am healthy.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I can completely understand. So at this point, I’ve already read your bio to our audience, but can you tell us more about who you are?

LaDawn Lanier:
Well, I am black momma from Brooklyn with Southern roots of my momma family originally from Alabama. So occasionally you’ll hear a Southern accent come out and I don’t know where it come from because I’ve grown up in the North my entire life. I’m an educator first, the parent second. I love all things children. I’m a proud parent of a beautiful two year old who unfortunately had been driving me up a wall.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I can understand that. So our topic is sex education. And mostly when we hear that phrase, we think about the mechanics of sex. But I know it’s so much more, but for our audience, can you explain exactly what sex education is?

LaDawn Lanier:
Asking what sex education is really a loaded question. Because I can tell you what it is for many people. And I can also tell you what I believe it should be.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I want to hear both.

LaDawn Lanier:
So what it is, unfortunately for a lot of people is don’t do that. Just don’t do that. Don’t ask about it, don’t talk about it. It won’t happen. Let’s pretend that it never happened or it never will happen. And if it does happen, it can only happen in this way. That way it’s allowed no other way is allowed. So unfortunately that’s what it looks like for a lot of people. What it should look like is a conversation that begins at birth. So you don’t start talking about a child sexuality once they’re already an adult. Sexuality even just intercourse, that’s all people want to talk about.

Sexuality isn’t just intercourse, it’s human development. So you’re talking about reproduction. You’re talking about puberty. You’re talking about orientation. Your gender identity. You’re talking about relationships, personal skills, how to communicate and negotiate for what you want, decision-making, sexual health, their diversity. What you see in the media, all of that affects your sexuality. So sex education should really look something that’s a little bit more scientifically based, not just we’re talking off the top of our head, but there’s some research involved in it and you should be exploring your values and beliefs about different topics and trying to gain the skills that are needed for you to navigate in your life.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That is a great definition. And I know for us in our household we are all about raising or creating a sex positive environment for our children. And a lot of people look at me strange when I say that, like, because my kids are four and seven, like you’re, you’re already having these conversations. I’m like, yes, there are exactly there’s certain conversations that we should be having that are age appropriate. And one that I think goes over, parent’s head a lot, but we need to especially talk about in the climate that we’re in is boundary setting and consent. Can you talk about that in one how we talked to our children who are autistic about boundary setting and consent?

LaDawn Lanier:
So let me tell you a really short story about something that actually happened a couple of days ago. I have a two year old at this point, she appears to be pretty, typically developing. What time tell, but right now she appears to be pretty typically developing. When you have children, you don’t know what you’re going to get. You’re just going to hope that you’re going to get someone that’s healthy and you’re going to move forward with whatever happens. So I’m outside playing in the yard because that’s the only place we really can go. And she’s doing some really cute things. And I wanted to take some pictures. This girl runs across the yard with her handout. No, don’t take my picture. And I immediately stopped. And I realized that, I’m always telling everybody else that we should allow our children to establish boundaries. And here I am filming every single thing that she does not thinking that maybe she doesn’t want to be filmed.

So, we have to take that into account. When we’re trying to teach boundaries, we also have to respect those boundaries. We can’t just talk about it. You have to be about it too. And it’s really difficult to explain to any child of any age that there are times where even when I’m teaching you that it’s okay for you not to be touched or not to be talked to. There are going to be situations that I’m going to have to put you in where somebody really does have to touch you. Like for example, going to a doctor’s office. My pediatrician is amazing. That office, they constantly ask, can I touch you? Is it okay if I do this? Even to my two years old. You have to normalize asking, is it okay if I touch you here? It is okay not to be touched? Can I do this in this way? Is it okay if maybe mom or dad holds your hand while I do this? Even with shots, it makes the world a lot safer if you’re having that conversation all along.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Now, in the instance of going to the doctor and they have to have the shots or the doctor has to touch them and the doctor is asking and they say, no. How do you explain that to them in that situation? It’s different.

LaDawn Lanier:
They unfortunately does a conversation that you’re going to have before you get to the doctor’s office. That’s going to be really awkward when you get there. And the kid is like, no, I’m not having that today. So, unfortunately there are going to be times where you have to go through something that’s not going to be comfortable. You let your child know that you’re going to be there with the entire time. And okay, we have to talk about it afterwards. But there are sometimes there are things that you have to go through in order to make sure that you’re healthy and that you stay healthy and that the people around you can remain healthy. And this is just part of life, but we have to normalize it. Certain things in life might not always feel comfortable, but we have to go through them. It’s not an easy conversation to have with any child especially if we know it’s going to hurt. Who wants to tell their child that the shot is not going to hurt and that it does hurt, that’s just realistic, but the pain is going to go away. And that’s really what you have to explain to them. Sometimes things do hurt and the pain will go away and you’re going to be there to support them with how they feel about it and anytime they want to talk about.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So providing them with a safe space to process those things. And I like how you said, you know, we let others in our, like our family, our friends know, you know, boundaries for our children, but we have to respect them as well. And that is something that, you know, even I do with my children, you know, I asked them, can mommy have a kiss? Can mommy have a hug? You know, and most parents will just give me a kiss or take it. But, you know, we have to show them as well that we’re respecting their boundaries as well.

LaDawn Lanier:
And I think as a community, we sometimes think it’s disrespectful not to go hug untie or not to go hug uncle or whomever. My parents were the first people to tell me it’s okay, just to say hello. You can say hi, you don’t have to hug and kiss everybody, but not everybody else understands that. And guess what? They don’t have to, that’s not their child. This is your child. You have to protect your child and protect your child boundaries. So if somebody else doesn’t understand that your child doesn’t want to be hugged or kissed or touched, then that’s a conversation for the adults to have not for you to have to put on that child to process.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes, I completely agree. We set those boundaries with the people that are around us and let them know that you have to ask and if they say, no, you have to respect that. Especially what’s a child who has sensory related things. They don’t want to be touched or hugged. Sometimes you have to respect that and feeling like, you know, Oh my gosh, that is so disrespectful. Especially in the black community get over some of those things because it’s a new time, a new era.

LaDawn Lanier:
We have a lot more information now than we had in youth past about a lot of different things. So it’s okay to learn something new and be different.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes, and respected. A lot of times we don’t respect children as if they are not people to respect. They deserve to have respect as well.

LaDawn Lanier:
It’s almost we grew up in a time where children are seen and not heard. And then they never expect them to have a voice later on, but you never actually let them practice having a voice.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
You preaching today.

LaDawn Lanier:
I was one of those kids who wasn’t allowed to have a voice. And when I got one, I made sure I was heard,

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Listen, okay, I’m the loudest one. My parents did allow me to have a voice in certain situations. So I did learn a lot. And with my children, it’s like, okay, you going learn how to be a voice for yourself as well. And it’s a hard thing to do because you want to swoop in and be like, I got this, but sometimes you going to let them do what they need to do.

LaDawn Lanier:
A time you’ll be surprised at how well they swoop in and fix their own issues. We just give them the opportunity to, because if you think about it, they’re watching us the entire time. We’ve been practicing all the things that we want them to do all along. And at some point, all we have to do is step back and let them do it. We just have to trust our own teaching. And I think a lot of times we’re so afraid that our children are going to get hurt. We don’t step back and let let them just do what they need to do.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. Especially when you have a child who has a disability and you’re so used to being that voice, and you don’t want them to be bullied or being taken advantage or not respecting their boundaries. That it’s hard sometimes to be okay. You go and advocate for yourself in these situations. So it is a fine line that a parent has to navigate and balance teaching and as well as also helping them use their voice.

LaDawn Lanier:
I feel like we should provide a script for almost everything that we do with children.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That would be helpful especially in that kind of conversation.

LaDawn Lanier:
It really is. I mean, think about it when you’re doing an interview, you have your notes. Why not give them notes for life? Especially for kids who learn better through a lot of repetition. They learn better by modeling those behaviors. They learn better by doing them over and over. You could just practice all day long when you need to. And then at some point they’re going to have the opportunity to try it. And if it doesn’t work and we change the script and try something different.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes, that is a good point. Especially when we’re talking about friendships and relationships and navigating that whole round, because that’s a part of a sex education topic. Navigating friendships and relationships, it can get tricky for us as neuro-typical adults. It’s a murky, messy situation at times. So trying to have these conversations with our kids, it’s difficult. Is this person taking advantage of you? Is this person truly your friend? Those kinds of conversations. So what goes into having those types of conversations with our children?

LaDawn Lanier:
Well, honestly you have to kind of define what a relationship looks like very differently now than when we were little kids, because the world is very different now. We have so much exposure and connection to a world that people didn’t have. I think about the kids that I see every day work. They’ve never lived in a world without personal computers. Many of them walk around with stronger computers than people have it in their homes, on their cell phones. My computer when I was in school taught me how to go from point A to point B and draw a straight line. And we thought we were doing something amazing. So imagine the access that they have to learn all about relationships and not all of these relationships are going to be good relationships. So first we need to talk about, what a good relationship looks like and what it doesn’t look like. But not minimizing that social media is out there and people do form friendships with individuals they may never meet face to face, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a real friendship. I think that’s something that a lot of people have trouble navigating because I think the first inclination is to say, well, if you’ve never met these people face to face, they’re not really your friend. In reality a lot of people do online date. And if they’re not online dating, they may meet people and say in a Facebook group or a chat room or something, and they’re lifelong communicators. That’s what a friendship looks like. So if this is what friendships look like for them, then we need to define whether or not the friendship is one that’s mutually beneficial.

If everyone being honest in that friendship, are you being faithful in that friendship? Are the people being respectful in that friendship? All the intimate relationship if a friendship that’s going a little bit further. Every relationship should start with you being a friend, then it will evolve into whatever it’s going to involve.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I like that. And that helps get the conversation started, I’m starting off there. And like you were saying we’re in different times. There are so many categorizations of what our relationship is like, Oh, we’re just talking or we’re this or that. And then it gets confusing. I’m like, Oh my goodness.

LaDawn Lanier:
Right. it’s important for us to know what they’re talking about. They have slang that regional. They have fling live local and they have fling that everybody in the country might use. We don’t have a clue what they’re talking about because we’re not using that language. They could be dating somebody for two days and the relationship is over and we’re thinking, but it didn’t start yet. I don’t get it because we don’t speak the same languages speaking.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And that is true. But by cultivating that safe space and having these conversations early on with them, you opened the door for them to be able to talk to you about these certain things later down the line, which is important, especially when they hit adolescents age and they’re exposed to, like you were saying, social media and the internet. You’re able to Google anything and it’s gonna pop up for you.

LaDawn Lanier:
And not all of it is going to be good. Not all of it’s going to be accurate. Not all of it’s going to be safe.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So how do we teach our children to navigate the internet and social media safely?

LaDawn Lanier:
Well, first I’m going to say that I might surprise you. I am a firm believer in parental controls. I grew up in a house that didn’t have doors for the bedroom. I am not going to do that with my child. My child will have a door, but that being fit, I’m still going to monitor what’s going on in that room. So if you have parental control that you can place on the social media, on your cable or on the phone provider, I would recommend that. And even then you still have to monitor what they’re experiencing. I have YouTube kids, to make sure that if my daughter is watching an educational video, while I’m trying to get some work done, that it really is an educational video.
There still is no guarantee then that everything is exactly what it’s supposed to be. But you have to constantly monitor and then double check your own monitoring to make sure that they’re not gaining access to information that’s not developmentally appropriate. We’re assuming that these kids are a little bit older and they’re interested in sex. There are kids that are being exposed at much younger ages now, and it’s not appropriate. And unfortunately, if we’re not monitoring well enough, they’re going to have more exposure to things that we’re going to have to more intense conversations about. Control as much as you can without being overbearing and make sure that you have an open line of communication where you can talk about different things they may see and how they feel about it and what it means to them. Children often ask questions and how are we going to come up with the answer to this question? And it’s not usually what they’re actually asking. So it’s okay to go to push back a little bit and say, well, what do you think it is? Find out what they think it is. And that’ll guide where you go with the conversation. You don’t want to give information that they’re not looking for, because then you’re going to have to have a conversation you’re not ready for it.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Exactly. I think a lot of parents are fearful to have these conversations with their kids because for them it’s awkward and how am I going talk to my child about these things? But with social media and the internet, if you’re not doing it, they’re going to find out the wrong things.

LaDawn Lanier:
Exactly. And there are a lot of great websites out there and computer apps, phone apps that will give you scientific information that’s developmentally appropriate. And as parents, I think we need to check some of those out. And if that means that you’re going to offer, if you don’t have the answers and you’re not comfortable talking about it. And the way to connect with your child is to offer an app where they get asked a question and it’s going to be answered by someone who is trained to do this. Then by all means, I suggest that you do it. I can’t make every parent in the world comfortable having every conversation because as a parent, I’m not comfortable having every conversation and I’m trained to do this. That doesn’t mean I can do it all the time with everybody. It may look different when it comes time for that two year old to be a little older and start asking questions.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That is a good point. I know one of my favorite websites I think it’s sex positive families. They have a lot of great resources books for every age, trainings, there’s so much on there that you can get. I just ordered a couple of books off of there about boundaries and consent. They have so many resources that you can check out. You were saying the apps that are out there that can help these conversation starters with your children. There’s so much we can do because it’s important to have the conversation rather than not have the station. So one thing I know that you do is you work in the school setting with teaching sex education, to autistic students.

LaDawn Lanier:
Right. My primary job is at a school psychologist and in most places, all your school psychologists really is do a lot of testing. We do a lot of diagnosis, but we’re trained to do a lot more than that. So a lot of times when they’re questioned the sexuality that come up, they go to your teacher, go to the person in the building that they think might know the best about whatever the issue is. So they’re going to the counselor, then they’re going to their school psychologist. I just happened to be a school psychologist who also has a degree in human sexuality. And I’m interested in providing more instruction where instruction is needed. So, we do a lot of, I want to say small group instruction. It’s almost like having like a lunch group where we will sit down and we’ll talk about whatever things come up. We get a lot of interesting conversations about dating because dating has changed a lot. I think a lot of times we forget that if the kid that we’re working isn’t neuro-typical, that doesn’t mean that somehow a puberty didn’t hit in the same way it did for everybody else.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes, that is.

LaDawn Lanier:
It comes regardless of your IQ. It comes regardless of what other physical ailments you may have. It comes regardless of your religion puberty it’s coming. And there are people who may never develop an attraction to another person, but the majority of individuals do. And you have to talk about that because they have to navigate that’s part of their everyday life. No, it’s more than just reading, writing and arithmetic. They’re also dealing with the friend that they’ve had since the third grade, suddenly looking really cute to them and they don’t know how to express that or.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Or what that feeling is.

LaDawn Lanier:
What does it mean to them? What if they don’t like me? What did they do like me? Does this mean? I like them.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I know I was reading an article and it was saying that 84% of individuals with moderate to severe intellectual disabilities in the U S do not receive, no sex education at all. And that was just mind blowing to me because I think one thing that, is just my opinion is that people are seeking that these individuals do not want to have relationships, don’t want to have sex because of their disability. So they just don’t bother having a conversation with them.

LaDawn Lanier:
Right. I’ve gotten into a lot of conversations with educators about how to deal with these type of questions when they come up in class because they definitely come up. And a lot of times the educator that just uncomfortable having the conversation with me because they can’t believe that these kids are sexual. Not just the kids are sexual, but this child with this label or this exceptionality can also be sexual. And I have to let them know that our children are born sexual beings. This is how they were born. We were born and we connect with other people. It’s all energy being connected. So if we were connecting with you as infants, why would you think that they wouldn’t continue to connect with people? And that connection wouldn’t evolve.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That is a great point. I know you had a conversation a couple months back and you were telling me that usually schools don’t even include those who are in those autism clusters in the school setting, in the actual sex education classes that they offer.

LaDawn Lanier:
Right. Important thing to know there are only 29 States and Washington DC that even mandate sex education. Only 29 States. And there is no guarantee that is going to be high quality or even going to cover what the students need. So if you’re not in those 29 States, who knows what you’re going to get. Most of the sex in laws are decided by state and local legislations. So for instance, in my state, I’m in Pennsylvania, we might not be one of the 29 States, but locally, my school district does provide something. So there can be a local decision if your state isn’t one of those places that requires it. But even then, only 15 of the States require instruction I mean, medically accurate.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Oh wow.

LaDawn Lanier:
So when I think about these numbers only 18 States require info about birth control.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So I want to go back to this 15% only require medically accurate.

LaDawn Lanier:
You have States that actually prohibit any discussion or even answering questions about LGBTQ identities. It is prohibited. That’s something to pose on what you’re going to get. So if this is the entire population, think about the kids that are already marginalized for a number of reasons. You have kids that are being marginalized because they are, um, you know, they have various disabilities. You have kids because of their level of functioning are already being separated. And I’m not saying it’s right to separate them or wrong to separate them, but they’re already being categorized and placed in certain types of classes to educate them better. But no one is taking sexual health into any of this when they’re thinking about that. We don’t look for disabilities in sexual health. We’re looking for, are you, neuro-typical? We’re looking for intellectually disabled? Are you emotionally disturbed? Are you have some type of learning disability. We’re not thinking about sexual health at all. So when we categorize someone, we place them in whatever appropriate educational placement they need to be in. Sometimes you can’t really roster those kids into a class that you may not actually have. The class has to exist. First of all.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yeah, I’m over here. I’m mind blown on this 15%.

LaDawn Lanier:
The class has to exist. So let’s assume best case scenario, the class does exist. The class does exist and you’re in one of those wonderful places where it’s medically accurate. You still have to have faith in your roster. We’ll speak in terms of high school, you have to have space in your roster where whatever you need to graduate can actually be put on there. So if you’re a student that has classes in a regular curriculum where you’re taking for English and for Math and language and all of that, then yeah, you’ll be rostered to a health class if it’s there. But if that’s not what your roster looks like. In Pennsylvania, we might have students that are rostered into autistic support. Their entire day might be just amongst students that have similar disabilities and possibly some other students for like prep period. But health is not necessarily a prep period that they have.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And why do you think that is ?

LaDawn Lanier:
Talking about sex as taboo, even when you’re supposed to be talking about it, it’s taboo and it’s even more taboo if you’re talking about children and sex. Because remember children are not sexual beings and a child differently abled also being a sexual being, Oh, booth, what are we doing here?

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So as if schools are missing the mark and there is a gap that needs to be filled,

LaDawn Lanier:
Unfortunately in public education nowadays, there are a lot of gaps that need to be filled. And when it comes to funding, there are bigger holes to fill with less money. And there are some things that you have to address first. And I understand that, but there has to be some funding coming from somewhere to address the other gaping holes too. And I think as parents, we also need to advocate in our local districts some of those holes to be filled because the money isn’t coming from federal funding, it’s coming from your tax money. Advocate for what you want your children to have.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. And what is usually taught in these? So let’s say that we are in this 15%, we’re getting this medically accurate information and have it on our roster. What is usually taught in the class?

LaDawn Lanier:
You are going to get everything health-related because you’re not taking a sex ed class, you’re taking a health class or something that’s going to be related to health. So you’re going to learn about healthy eating. You’re going to learn about a body image, stuff that does fall under sexuality, but it’s not just sexuality. You’re going to talk about exercise. There might be a curriculum for it where it may not be specific lesson plans, but you’re supposed to cover these particular units. And they’re going to be a lot of units for that one semester that you’re going to get in high school. They’re going to be a lot of units that need to be covered and how intense those units are, is going to be real dependent upon who’s actually doing the instruction.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And we know by the time they’re in high school that they’ve been exposed to…

LaDawn Lanier:
At that point it’s already too late. We should’ve been doing this long before that. But better late than never, but it should have already happened.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yeah. So there’s a lot of gaps that parents have to think about. And then have these conversations with their children, especially if they’re not covering the LGBTQ conversations.

LaDawn Lanier:
They’re not talking about that. A lot of places are not talking about birth control. A lot of places are not talking about STI , HIV. They don’t talk enough about consent. And like I said, you’re going to get, whatever that person that’s instructing is comfortable talking about. I’ve seen some great instruction and I’ve seen some pretty bad instruction with the same exact curriculum. But that’s what happened with anything. Which is why you can’t rely on the public school system to give your child everything in the way that you want them to have it. If you want your child’s education to be more robust, then you need to feed them.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And that’s another point.

LaDawn Lanier:
We’re entitled to a free and appropriate public education.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That word appropriate is the key that I always point out to parents. We’re not talking about the best of the best.

LaDawn Lanier:
The best is what you pay for, but guess what? But most people, your taxes are paying for this. So you need to demand the best. If you can demand that there are a lot of your tax money that goes toward those educational systems and your K to 12 education for a public school is amazing. And then there are places that don’t have a funding source. There’s no formula for the state and you kind of get what you get. And that’s not okay. There needs to be more equity. And the only way to get equity is if we’re fighting for equity. It doesn’t just come magically. It’s not going to trickle from the sky. We can’t wait for it to fall. Is not manna from the God. We have to fight for it.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yeah. And we also have to have these conversations with our children because unfortunately these things are not going to change overnight. So it’s going to be up to us to fill in those gaps and have these conversations because they are being exposed to a lot and they might be feeling a lot of things and they don’t know how to have these conversations. Starting these conversations at age appropriate times. It sets your child up for better success that is I like to say.

LaDawn Lanier:
Yes, definitely.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So, what are some resources parents can look to? We talked about the sex positive families, but what are some apps out there that they can go to or other websites or books that you recommend?

LaDawn Lanier:
So, I know not every one of the lover of Planned Parenthood, but Planned Parenthood really does have some really good consent videos on their website. They have other resources as well, but their consent videos are actually they’re pretty good. Tolerance.org is another really nice website. I feel like I can give you like a whole bunch that you can add to your website at some point. There’s an app called roo, R O O. And, it’s actually run by planned Parenthood. You could ask questions on their anonymously, and it provides fact-checked like actual scientific responses to the question that being asked and it caters to all age groups that ranging from like puberty through adulthood. So even adults can go on there and ask questions, and there’ll be someone on there that can answer the question in an age appropriate way. You set up like an account. So it’s not just a random person saying they’re 35 asking a question. They gear it towards the age that you say that you are, so you can fit that up for your child too.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That is a great resource to have. And where can the people listening find you and get in contact with you on social media or any website or anything you have going on.

LaDawn Lanier:
So for now you can just find me on social media. On Instagram, I am @sexologist_lala, – S E X O L O G I S T underscore L A L A and I’ll make sure you have that to put it in.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. All of this will be in our show notes.

LaDawn Lanier:
And then also on Facebook, Lanier Educational Consulting. I have a page, so you can check me out there, inbox me, ask me questions, be if I can help you find resources, and I can be your resource.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. And remember, she is a school psychologist as well as someone who has a background in human sexuality, as well as doing this with the autism clusters in the school. So she is a wealth of knowledge and I would definitely reach out for questions and resources because she probably is going to have the answer or know where you can go to get the answer.

LaDawn Lanier:
Definitely. This is 20 years.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I just want to thank you for being on our show.

LaDawn Lanier:
Thank you for having me.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. So hopefully we can get you back on to talk about the actual school psychology part of education and what that entails.

LaDawn Lanier:
I’d love to be back. Whenever you’re ready, I’m ready.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Thank you. And thank you all for listening into our episode and we will see you on the next episode of the podcast. Have a good one.