Introduction

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Hello, and welcome to the Autism in Black Podcast. I’m Maria Davis-Pierre, a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in the state of Florida. And America’s number one, autism advocate for black parents. I am the founder and CEO of Autism in Black Inc. where we aim to include the excluded. Today, we have Dr. Louise Lockhart, who is a Pediatric Psychologist and Board Certified in Clinical Child and Adolescent Psychology. She is the president and owner at a new day, Pediatric Psychology in San Antonio, Texas, which specializes in the treatment of children, adolescents, and adults with acute and chronic behavioral health and medical conditions. Dr. Lockhart started her practice in January of 2016, after working 12 years in clinics schools and military hospitals. She is also a national speaker and presents to professional audiences on a variety of topics. I’m so excited to have Dr. Lockhart on today’s episode. She covers emotional regulation as well as diagnosis that co-occur with autism. Enjoy today’s episode.

Episode

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Autism in Black podcast. Today, we have a very special guest and I’m so excited to have her on the podcast. We have Dr. Lockhart.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Hi there. Thanks for having me.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Thank you for being on the episode. So, I have read your bio, but can you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do exactly.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yeah, definitely. So, my name is Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart, and I am a Pediatric Psychologist, Parent Coach and business owner at a New Day Pediatric Psychology in San Antonio, Texas. So, what that means as a Pediatric Psychologist, is that I work primarily with kids, teenagers, even adults and families with chronic and acute medical conditions. So, that’s a big specialty area of mine. So doing more of a behavioral health perspective on medical conditions. And, then another big thing of what I do is being a parent coach. So, working a lot with parents of kids of all ages to help them be more confident and successful as a parent of their kids with a variety of needs and concerns.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Perfect. So, for the autism parent that is listening, how can your services be helpful to them?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
So, a big part of it would be one, I really believe in education. So, educating the parent on what exactly autism is, and what it’s not all the different concerns that they often have, which they see through often behavior, but then also how kids with autism have a lot of strengths, which we don’t always look at a strength-based approach. So, I really come at it from a much more of an education perspective. And, then the flip side then is to give them very practical strategies to work with their kids in the moment, as well as how to take care of themselves as well, too, because there’ll be more equipped and more confident and successful as a parent, if they feel like they take care of themselves as well, too.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I love that. So, what are some helpful strategies that parents can use when they are trying to not only take care of themselves, but their children as well?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
So, I think what I found is there are times for myself as a parent as well. And, for parents that I work with that I’ll find that there’s certain behaviors that when a child does that they’re fine with, and they go with the flow and then another time the child will do the exact same thing. And then the parent loses it. Then what I try to help parents see is, is it really the behavior that’s bugging you? Or is it just your state of mind and where you’re at? Because, I find that many times we will interpret our children’s behaviors based on our own perspective and our own lens. So, if we are haggard, stressed, overwhelmed, exhausted, and hungry, then we will have a shorter fuse. (So, true.) And, we will tend not to respond in the best way.

And then again, when we’re tired and all those different things happen, then we will interpret their behavior as an embarrassment or as a manipulation or that they’re in to make our lives miserable or they’re out to get us. And, so then we look at their behavior in a much more sinister way, when really, it’s the exact same thing many times. So, the way that I feel like it’s really important for parents to take care of themselves is to make sure they make time for themselves. So, whether it’s time with friends, with their spouse or partner, by themselves, doing things that they enjoy, so that their whole life is not revolving around being a parent all the time, because then you lose your identity and it does get tiring after a while, if you feel like you’ve lost yourself. So, I think all of those things, of course, it’s easier said than done, but it is extremely important, especially when you’re parenting a kid with autism. So, I think taking care of your needs as a parent is really should be a highlight priority.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes, I can even agree with that. Because, you brought up a good point that the behavior can be the same behavior. But, if I have not so much patients this particular day, then the behavior irritates me more than it would have if I was well rested and had taking care of myself needs, it’s happened to me many times. This is the same behavior that they’ve been doing and I’m confusing them. So, a lot of times I do have to check myself and be okay, something is going on with me. I need a time out.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Well, and that’s a great point because then it does confuse them. So, then if you are so inconsistent in your behavior, and then they are saying will do, like I was, I’m doing the same thing I did yesterday. Why are you tripping today? Then what’s happening is they get confused and they really never know what to expect from you as a parent, they never know I could do the same thing and I’ll get a completely different result. And, that’s confusing. It would be the same for us. If we got a different result from an employee or a boss, every time we did the same thing and sometimes they flipped out and sometimes they praised us. You would know how to act either after a while.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So true. So, how can parents manage their own thoughts and emotions?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
I think a big part of it, is to make sure you have your own support system. And, I can’t emphasize it enough. Having a support system through someone, whether it’s a spouse or a partner, a friend, a pastor, a therapist, a parent coach, a Facebook group, a posse club, a tribe, whatever it is that you need to have your own group of people or person that has your back, that you can just vents to. And, isn’t going to try and fix it, but just listen to you because so often I think we feel not saying, I know that people often feel alone in their journey and they think that they’re the only ones that flip out on their kids. They’re the only ones that yell. They’re the only ones that sometimes regret being a parent. And it, those are all things that feel bad. So, people keep those things to themselves thinking that they’re horrible for thinking that, well that’s a reality. Sometimes parenting sucks. You would be like, why did I do this in the first place? And then, you like feel bad about feeling that. And, then you beat yourself up more. I think that we need to stop doing that. And, we just need to have a group of people or a person that we can really reliably go to and just vent. I think that’s one of the best ways to take care of yourself, so that you don’t feel alone in it.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I agree. I mean, a lot of times there’s so much shame around having those thoughts that people don’t even want to utter them. My kids do frustrate me, especially when it comes to the world of having a child with a disability. A lot of times, when we say things like, the child is frustrating us we get looked at a certain way or like, why are you saying those kinds of things? So, it’s a lot of shame that goes around being a parent to a child with a disability, and then you’re holding me then these things in, and it feels so lonely that it just piles up.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yeah, exactly. I agree. And, I think that’s why parents keep those things to themselves because, when they do reveal them, many people do make them feel bad for it. It’s all the judging. This is all the comments, and so then, a lot of times we don’t say anything because in fact what we fear actually does come true. And, so then I think then we suffer more in silence and it just, it shouldn’t be that way. So, I think that having people who are nonjudgmental and people who have you’re in your corner with you, I think is really important when we are doing this journey, especially with kids with special needs and a lot of concerns.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Thank you for normalizing that for us. So, I do want to talk about some co-occurring diagnosis that occur with autism. Can you tell us about some of the common ones that co-occur with autism?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yeah, definitely. So, there’s a few, there’s one sensory processing disorder, which I don’t know a ton about, but I do have some information on a sensory processing disorder is one, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder or ADHD. Anxiety is another one. OCD or Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Those are some of the most common ones, but also things like learning disabilities Tourette’s disorder, where they have motor or vocal ticks. So, there’s a lot of things that can co-occur with that. And, then some of the ones that also occur, maybe not as frequently, it could be things like bipolar disorder where there’s significant fluctuations in mood and then even depression. So, there’s a lot of different co-occurring diagnoses and that’s why it looks, it can be complicated. So, even though you have a child that can fall on the spectrum then, if you pile something else on top of that, in terms of one or two or three additional diagnoses, then there’s a lot of things that can happen within the context of a behavior that you’re seeing in front of you.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. And, you and I both know as healthcare professionals that a lot of the diagnostic criteria where the symptomology of these co-occurring diagnosis overlap with autism. So how would a parent know between autism and anxiety or autism and the ADHD or autism in the OCD?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
That’s a great question. I mean, the thing is many times professionals don’t even know. I mean, when we were getting all the information we’re doing the clinical interview, we do diagnostic assessments. And even in those cases, that’s what I like for my team. When we do assessments, we talk as a team about it because it can be confused thing when you’re looking at things and you’re really trying to rule out and rule in different diagnoses because we don’t enjoy giving a ton of diagnosis to a kid. I think that it’s not helpful and it can be confusing to a parent. And, so I think that parents need to first realize that it is a confusing process to know what is what, because it is confusing even for the professionals. So, I think again, it goes back to educating yourself, doing a lot of reading at reputable sources so that you’re getting the right information and not inaccurate information. And, then even speaking to a professional who is specialized in this area so that you can have a proper assessment with objective data, which is like what you reporting verbally, what teachers are reporting as well as objective data. So looking at test data that are validated and normalized, and then that way you can tease out what is actually this and what is actually this other thing, since there’s so much overlap between the two.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
I love that. And that what you just stated can also help with misdiagnosis, with/without your child being misdiagnosed. If we just use the skills that you just stated.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Exactly.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Now, I know that you are ADHD and executive functioning skills expert. So, can we talk about ADHD in autism and executive functioning skills?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yes. That’s I love talking about that particular area. So executive functioning skills are, I think it’s a term that we’ve been throwing around a lot lately and I don’t always feel like people always fully know what it actually means. I think it can be very confusing. So, how I look at executive functioning is the part of your brain. That’s the boss of your brain and your behaviors, thoughts, emotions. So, it basically tells you how to react and respond to your environment, to other people and to all the internal signals that you’re getting from yourself. So, executive functioning happens in the prefrontal cortex or the frontal lobe in your brain. So, it’s the front part of your brain, which is the last part of your brain to develop. And, it’s the part of your brain that doesn’t finish developing until about age 26. So, all the other areas of your brain are fully developed and grown by the time you are born.
So things that involve memory and vision and hearing and knowing where your body is in space and all those different things. But the frontal lobe where the prefrontal cortex is responsible for things like your personality self-monitoring, which is knowing how you come across to others impulse control for emotions and behaviors. It’s also responsible for things like time management, as well as task initiation, starting something, completing something persisting in something. Let me see, what else did I miss? Oh, organization and decision making. A lot of important stuff. And, I always joke when I talk to audiences and parents about this is like, it seems really inconvenient for that to be the last thing to finish developing, because those are so important. Making decisions, managing your time, your personality, knowing how you come across so that you’re not rolling your eyes and open.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yeah, until 26, like that’s new information to me. So, I’m like, oh, okay.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Right. So, we’re asking a child with poor executive functioning, which is the case with ADHD, primarily because it’s an executive functioning dysregulation disorder, but it’s also the case for children in general, because they’re not finished growing and developing until 26 in the brain. And then, you’re also putting in the complicated diagnosis of autism, which is a spectrum disorder. So, executive functioning is significantly impacted because of self-control regulation, all those different things, and then piling on top of that, where their IQ is and what they understand. So, all of those things are when you’re wondering why your kid is same thing over and over again, why you keep teaching them something and they keep doing the opposite. Well, that’s all going back to the frontal lobe, the development is that they do get the message, but it’s still buffering. It’s still downloading. It’s being filed in the right place so they can access it again. Like it’s complicated. It’s a very complicated process. So, it’s all of that executive functioning stuff really plays a huge role in all of the diagnoses we’re talking about, including autism and then all of the co-occurring diagnoses that go along with it as well too.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And, I think a lot of times with parents is that we have chores or goals for our children, like clean up your room, wash the dishes and we have a standard, but a lot of times the standard isn’t realistic for the child who is autistic and ADHD in dealing with executive functioning not having the right executive functioning skills, I would say.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Right, exactly. And with executive functioning skills, especially if they have ADHD on top of autism, for example, ADHD. One of the things that the research is showing is kids with executive functioning disorders tend to be two to three years developmentally more immature than their same age peers. So, they’re not, it’s not that they’re less intelligent or less capable. It’s just developmentally maturity wise. They are two to three years younger. So, because their brain is growing at a slower pace because it’s dysregulated. So, things like chores, responsibilities, time management, the ability to do certain things is lagging behind. And, so when you expect a ten-year-old, for example, to be able to wash the dishes or clean their room or whatever, then you’re really talking about a seven or eight-year-old. So, then you have to say, well, can you expect that from this same age kid, but yes, but yet they’re lagging behind a little bit developmentally. So, they may not be able to do the same thing in the same way. And then their brain gets overwhelmed by the task because it’s an executive functioning issue. Since they’re not getting all the information quick enough, they don’t process things very quickly. So, it’s a very complicated process. And, if you don’t really understand that you’re going to be expecting something of your child that they really just cannot do yet. They literally can’t do it. They’re not trying to not do it. They just can’t do it.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Oh, that is really good information. Especially for the parents who have children with extremely high IQ, their children lack executive functioning skills. So, they have these high IQs and you talk to them differently. But then in the same sense, you have these expectations that they just can’t quite meet because they are developmentally behind with executive functioning.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Exactly. And, that’s where it gets confusing for parents because we have this group that a lot of parents aren’t aware of, which is the 2E kids where these are kids, they’re twice exceptional. So, they have very high IQ and then they also have another diagnosis like autism or ADHD or a learning disability in some way. And so now, you’re like, okay, well I don’t get it because they’re really super smart, but yet they have this diagnosis, which then impacts their ability to act or function in a way that other kids can do. So, the 2E is something that parents really need to educate themselves on if they have a really high IQ kid, because that’s the twice exceptional kid, because they’re like a contradiction. In terms they feel like, because they get it, they understand it. They’re very highly intelligent, but yet cognitively in terms of executive functioning, they can’t always do the thing that you think they can do.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Exactly. And, it leads to them also being frustrated. Because they’re seeing you’re frustrated and not understanding why they just can’t quite get that task.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Exactly.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And where can parents go to learn information about 2E kids?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
So, there are a few resources is that if you just type into E and then a Google search, a lot of the things that pop up are going to be there’s not a ton of research. And, so a lot of the things that pop up will be some of the things that are more valid, but one person that I would really recommend because he doesn’t really a lot of good stuff is Seth Perler, P E R L E R. And Seth Perler, he does a lot of work with coaching parents and educating parents on twice exceptional kid. So, he has really good YouTube videos and resources on that.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And, I’m going to be having all of this in the show notes for you all as well. So, can we talk about co-regulation in self-regulation because I know that plays off of what we’re talking about with the executive functioning skills and those who are diagnosed with autism and ADHD.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yes. So, co-regulation is what I often talk about as being a precursor to self-regulation, which means it’s like a prequel. So, it has to occur before it. So, kids regulation is about knowing how to keep things in balance for yourself, how to not overreact to a situation, if you’re sad or feel sad, but not, you don’t need to have a two hour tantrum like regulation is being able to know how to add, adapt and adjust your behavior, emotions and feelings based on the situation. It’s very complicated task to ask a child, but in order for them to do that, we have to first call regulate, which means we have to show them how to respond appropriately to those situations that may cause dysregulation. And, this is so important because we teach it all the time. We even get it as adults. And, it’s important for us to teach this to our kids from very young.

So, co-regulation some examples would be like, if your baby’s having a hard time going to sleep, rubbing them, rubbing their back, massaging their feet, caressing their hair to help them sooth rocking them though, that’s a co-regulation thing. A child who’s having a hard time regulating themselves as a toddler or they’re sick. And, so then you’re bouncing them or rocking them or singing to them. So, you’re helping them to co-regulate you’re giving them the skills or a teenager that maybe you’re riding the bike with them or you’re coloring with them, writing journaling with them, anything like that, to help them sue that themselves and to know how to respond to a situation. Those are all co-regulation, and we do that as adults to a friend who listens to us, spousal massages our shoulders, someone who just hangs out with us to help you calm down and sit with your emotions in the moment. So, all of that is co-regulation, we’re getting it all the time in positive and negative ways. So, especially with kids, with ADHD and autism, they are naturally very dysregulated in many ways. And, so we have to be very regulated so that we can help them regulate because if we are dysregulated and then they’re dysregulated and we’re having our own adult temper tantrum, while they’re having their own child tantrum, then there’s a bunch of dysregulations going on.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yeah.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
So that co-regulation is really important to make sure that self-care is so important, because once you are cared for, then you can co-regulate, and then care for them and help them care for themselves. So, I love the area of co-regulation, and it’s such a hard thing for parents because they keep thinking that kids should just know how to regulate and well know, they don’t know it’s the frontal lobe, again, it’s not dental 26. And, then if you have a dysregulated brain on top of that, that’s under-stimulated underdeveloped, and then you are dysregulated as a parent, then they’re not going to learn it. And, you’re going to see worse behavior issues and concerns over time.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And, I think a lot of parents don’t even know that they aren’t regulated themselves. So, they’re involved in a back and forth with the child and everything is escalating, and they’re not realizing that their behavior is actually assisting their child’s behavior in escalating.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Exactly. And, some of the ways parents should be aware of is some red flags to know if you’re dysregulated, because if you’re yelling all the time, if you feel like you’re losing your cool, if you feel frustrated with your kids are always talking in an angry way where your kids were describing you as angry. And, I’ve heard that from teenagers and kids are like dad is always mad all the time. Her mom is always mad and always annoyed and always disappointed in me. Like if kids are using those terms to describe you and your interactions with them, you’re probably dysregulated because you should not appear mad to your children all the time. You shouldn’t sound like you’re an agitated and angry with them all the time. And, that maybe you’re dysregulated because you’re not balanced enough. And, so all that yelling and angry face and the tone, the silent treatment, if you give them silent treatments, all of that stuff is dysregulation on your part.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Wow. And how can parents get regulated? How is there a resource that they can read or, you know, should they see a therapist?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
I think a lot of it goes back to the getting a parent coach or a therapist could really help them understand why they’re doing that because many times we default back to what we know and what is normal for us. And so, we might have learned that because that’s how we were parents, it that’s how our parents were. And many parents nowadays, that’s how their parents were. I mean, the children were seen and not heard, don’t disrespect, your elders be a good kid. You always have this face where you have this mask that you’re presenting to adults. And you might be suffering inside or, you were over disciplined or over punished. And, so I think those are really important because many times when I’m talking to parents, a lot of the reasons why they’re dysregulated is because of their own family of origin. And, it’s not really our fault. That’s just how we were raised. And, so we really default back to how we were raised either trying to be just like our parents are nothing like our parents. And, so when that happens, we are going to show it to our kids.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yeah. That’s a good point when you try so hard not to be like them, then you can end up showing characteristics that are like them.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Right. And, that’s why I tell parents that whether you’re just like your parents are nothing like your parents, you’re still comparing your behavior and your parenting behavior based on your parents. You’re either trying to go towards them or move away from them in that way. And, so it’s all being informed. And, if you’re trying so hard not to be like them, then you probably have unresolved things that you need to deal with because it’s always in the back of your mind and you’re fighting so hard not to be like them. Then, you’re everything you do is always based on that mask or that perspective and that schema. And, so we have to move away from how can we address that, so that we’re not always fighting not to be like our parents.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
You are preaching a word here. You really are. And, I’m here for every bit of it, self-regulation. Can you tell us about that? And again, Self-regulation.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yes. So self-regulation like I mentioned earlier, it just goes back to monitoring and managing your thoughts, your emotions and your behaviors. And, so it’s really about like, it goes back to, I remember I had a teenager in therapy, asked me they were struggling with depression and it was clinical depression and they were asking me, well, when should I feel sad? Because I don’t understand the difference between sad and depressed. And I said, well, you shouldn’t be sad when sad things happen. That’s okay. That’s regulation. You should be sad when sad things happen. But if you’re feeling so sad all the time, even when good things are happening, even when you’re around your friends, even when you’re watching a really good movie and you still feel really down and sad, that’s a sign of dysregulation. That’s a sign of depression because you shouldn’t be sad in those circumstances, you should be happy. You should be enjoying life. So, if you’re doing things that you should bring enjoyment and you’re not, that’s a sign of dysregulation which bring a sign of something that’s more significant. So regulation is a way of, you’re basically being able to respond to others, your environment, and yourself based on the circumstances so that there should be a mirroring and a matching of how you respond based on what’s around you.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Okay, perfect. So, how would a parent age this to their child? So, for instance Milia is my daughter who is seven, and she is autistic, and she is extremely hard on herself, which I know a lot of parents are dealing with their children who are autistic as well. So, she will get caught up. It’s say, for instance, she messes up on her homework and she gets caught up in the cycle of, I can’t do anything. This is bad, I’m bad. I can’t get anything. How do we then help them regulate in those situations?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
That’s a great question. So, a lot of kids they’ll get into a lot of that. Like self-deprecating, self-loathing talk where’s that I’m a loser. I never do anything. I’m a burden to this family. There’s nothing’s good goal for me, that stuff. And, so a lot of kids will do that. If they kid who have a natural temperament to be somewhat perfectionistic or who are very sensitive to their environment or who are sensitive to others, they’re highly empathic, even highly sensitive kids, which is something that we haven’t even talked about yet, but that’s more of a temperament than a disorder. So just highly sensitive kids, they just tend to be sensitive to themselves and their environment. And, so they will tend to take on things and over-exaggerate a situation. And so, when we noticed that about our kids and we really need to teach them how not to do that.
And so, a lot of that would be giving them the words for that. So that would be where that self-regulation comes in. So if you notice that something is hard for your child and they can’t get it and they’re beating themselves up for it to say, even something simple, like an empathic statement, actually listen to what they’re saying, it sounds like you’re feeling frustrated because you can’t get this done. So that using the empathy, using a feeling word is really important. A lot of kids who dysregulate and make a lot of those negative self-statements is because they don’t have the feeling word to describe it. They just think it’s sad matter. Glad. So, the empathy is important, then you validate it and the validation would come, when I can’t figure something out, I get really frustrated too.
And then, you say a self or a collaborative or joint solution statement where you say, what do you need from me to get through this? How can we work together so that you can overcome this so that the important steps are you listened to the words and what the child is actually saying and what you really think, they’re saying, you empathize with it by using a feeling worse so that you’re giving them the feeling word you validated by saying the me too statement. I’ve gone through this other kids go through this. It’s supposed to be hard thing. And then, the joint solution where you’re saying, okay, what do you need from me? Because they may not want you to fix it. They may just need to vent or they may want a solution.
So then, you base their concerns and say, this is the joint solution we can come up with. What do you need for us to do to help you get through this? And, I find that works really well because what you’re doing is, you’re teaching them problem solving skills and you’re teaching them how to get through things. And, you’re basically communicating to them. And I’ve said this to kids, I’ve worked with, into my own kids that, of course this homework is hard. It’s supposed to be hard, but it’s frustrating when it’s hard. If it was easy, you wouldn’t need to be in school. So, it’s supposed to be hard and then it’s not going to be. So, you’re giving them those things and helping them. It’s supposed to be hard. And it’s amazing how, when someone is able to say something like that to you, how it really provides a sense of relief.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
It does normalize it. Because, with the children who do have the tendency to be perfectionist, they think that, they should automatically know it, giving them that safe space to know that, it is hard. Other people have difficulties with it as well. And it’s okay.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
I found that, because my husband hears me talking about these things all the time. He’ll do the same thing for me. So, I have my own business and I’ll say something like, oh my gosh, this running, this is so hard. I have no clue what I’m doing. And he’ll say something like, well of course you don’t know what you’re doing. You’ve never done this before. And, I was like, oh yeah. And he’s like, but you’ll learn it. And we’ll research it and we’ll get support and then you’ll know it.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
You are dropping gems today. So let’s talk about the highly sensitive child. I know you mentioned it just a little bit prior to what we were talking to. So can you tell us more about that? And then in the sense of how somebody who is autistic and how that works with them, when they’re highly sensitive. Because Malia is a highly sensitive child.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yes. So highly sensitive children. This is not a diagnosis, it’s a personality or temperament and it’s, there’s a lot of newer research that’s come out about this, but it’s a really fascinating area. And, it’s really about a child who is very much there. How do I explain it? They’re their senses are exaggerated. They see things in a very, or feel things in a very exaggerated way. So, their internal senses, their visual sounds, pain, smells. They get very distressed by things, because they really experienced it in a very intensive way. So, things like smells, they may smell something, which is often we see with kids with autism, for example, they’ll get very sensitive to something, and then they notice it, and then they freak out by it. They have a meltdown about it and you’re like, what in the world is going on right now? Because you don’t notice it. And then, they just want to leave a place because they’re seeing it, they’re feeling it and, they’re experiencing it in such a big way that they don’t know how to regulate it
and so that’s really a big one.

The other part is they really absorb other people’s emotions, so they absorb people’s feelings and when you’re upset, when you’re mad, when you’re sad, when you’re crying, when you’re happy, they really, since that if they have there’s things like time pressure that overwhelms them. So, forcing them, making them move faster or getting ready quickly, that’s really overwhelming for them. When they get overstimulated, they also tend to withdraw and isolate and they re-energized by being by themselves. And then, things like tags, seams, things that are too tight, or if things that are too much elastic or whatever, anything like that, that could be very irritating to them. And then, another big part is too their thought life, they’re very active in their thoughts. So, they very stuck in their heads and they really have a very vivid imagination. They daydream a lot. And so, that’s why they do a lot of the things, like you mentioned with your daughter, where they tend to just stay stuck in their head. They stuck in their head and they just chew on it over and over again. So those are some of the things, I mean, that’s why things like criticism bother them so much and it wounds them so much because they’re already beating themselves up anyway. So then, when you blast them with some insult or a critique, rather than seeing it as constructive, they think it’s a personal flaw.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. And, I know that we even had to put that in Malia’s IEP about how to critique her because they will lead to her being in that thought process all day and it will affect her all day. So, simply changing their wording will help my child.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yep.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And, I know that you talked about tantrums, and I know that you have a book on tantrums for a lot of us who are parents to a child with autism they have sensory overload, tantrums. How can parents get it together when their child is overwhelmed? Because I know a lot of times, if they’re having a tantrum in public, then the parent will feel embarrassed and then, it all goes left then.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yeah. Tantrums are a big like kryptonite for many parents like whining, and nagging. Those are all things that really grind our gears. So, I think tantrums are a hard one because we feel out of control when they’re happening, and we want to make the child comply, because they’re not doing what they’re supposed to do. And, I think one of the most important things to remember, especially for kids who are dysregulated because of their diagnosis. So, many kids with ADHD, highly sensitive kids, because of their temperament, kids with autism, kids with anxiety, even kids with depression, all of these things tantrums actually help them to reset. It’s their way of regulating. And so, although it feels like a very over extreme, over-exaggerated way to reset, it helps them.

And so, I had just spoken to a group of teachers recently about that, and I was letting them know that when you think about like, so you had like a horrible day at work, and you came home and then, you just went off and, you were just going off with your spouse and saying, telling them what went wrong, what the principal did with the students, did you know how you got stuck in traffic and then your shoe broke and, you’re going off, that’s like a tantrum. It’s more refined, because they’re an adult, but that’s what a tantrum is in a sense, it’s that you’re venting. And then, after you vent, hopefully you’ve been able to reset.

So kids, they don’t know how to have a refined tantrum yet, and we’re wanting them to, because they’re over exaggerated tantrum is very inconvenient, embarrassing, insulting to us. And so, we’re trying to rush them through it. So, we either tell them to stop or yell at them for it, isolate them, whatever it is because we’re trying to make it stop when really it might be the thing that they need to do to reset. So, what I explained to parents, which is really hard and I get it is you need to be able to hold the space for the child. So basically, being able to give them the space, to have the tantrum in a way that’s safe. So, they don’t hurt themselves. They don’t hurt others, and not damaging property, and that they can basically have their tantrum. And so, holding their step space really makes a big difference. So, like literally letting them have it. So sitting with them in it, having them sit in your lap, if it’s not too dangerous for you, sitting in the room with them, while not fully engaging them, because you don’t want to feed it either, and reinforce it by paying too much attention to it, but being able to remain in this space so that, you’re basically communicating to them that I can handle your big emotions and I will be here when you’re ready.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Wow. As someone who is black that is in our facilities that is against everything that we know we’ve been taught, the stigmas that have been placed upon us, outside of our community, inside of our community, that is just completely different. So, I imagine a parent would have to train themselves to be able to hold the space for their children.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Oh yeah. Because it’s hard to do, I remember when I first did it with my son, he’s seven now and he would have some major tantrums when he was about like men, we went through terrible twos to the terrible sixes. I mean, it was like long process. And, but what made it better over time is doing that honestly is I would go in the room with him when he would have this tantrum. And, I remember the first time I did that, it was like a 40-minute tantrum. I closed his bedroom door. I sat in there with him, criss cross applesauce. He threw himself on me, threw himself on the bed, screamed, cried, everything. And, I just sat there, I didn’t look at him, I didn’t talk to him, I just sat there. And so, then he slowed down a little bit and he was sitting in front of me and then, he would have it again and it just went on. And then, he finally sit in my lap, hugged me, I hugged him. We started breathing together. I rocked him and then it was over. And then, every time we would have, it would be a little bit less to the point where then he would literally scream, stomp two minutes, it’s over. But it was because I held a space, and do not scream, and cry, and spank, and yell, and all these different things like that. Doesn’t help because, that’s just putting on more pressure, and it’s not really effective. So, it’s amazing what a big deal it makes to hold a space. And then, as they get older that they learn how to do it for themselves. And, I’ve had to teach a lot of parents of teenagers recently, how to do this because a lot of teenagers that’s what they complain about is that they feel like they have these emotions and their parents just tell them, Oh, there’s no need to be sad. There’s no need to be mad, don’t be anxious, don’t worry. And, it’s like that doesn’t help.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And, a lot of times I know parents probably think they’re doing the right thing, but by telling them that, because that’s how we were raised and, suck it up. You’re gonna grow. You’ll be fine. You’ll be stronger. Instead of having that space to let them feel those emotions.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Right. Exactly. And, to let them know that it’s okay to feel that, and how healing that can be, because you’re feeling like you’re not being accepted conditionally based on how good you feel and how good you make your parents feel. But, it’s about you just having those feelings and that they can handle it. We want to communicate to our kids, I can handle your feelings. And, many times we’re communicating to them that we can’t, and we’re showing them that we can’t, which is why we have our own little adult temper tantrum, because it is overwhelming and it is hard, but how else are they going to learn it? If they can’t learn it from us.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
So true. And, I know a lot of times parents place such high priority on getting your child to behave. I know that you have a whole thing and your child to behave. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Yes. So, a lot of how, when you talk about what people are looking for, most parents when they come to see me and they’re looking for a parent coach or a psychologist, is there the bottom line is their goal is they want to get their kids to behave. That’s what they’re asking for. And so, we have a very behaviorist approach and a lot of how many of us psychologists and therapists were taught was behavior modification. When it comes to these kinds of things, you’re modifying the behavior so that you can have a well-behaved child. You have a well-behaved child, you have success. And, that’s the goal. But the problem though is that, and a lot of people have been talking about this recently is okay, so now you have a well-behaved child on the surface, and then they’re suffering on the inside.
So, is that still a success? Well, I don’t think so. That’s how you get a lot of kids who are perfectionistic because they’re on the outside. They’re acting like everything’s okay. Or how you get kids who are behaved in one setting and poorly behaved in another. There’ll be like the citizen of the year at school, and then let it rip at home or vice versa. So, that’s not really the end goal. The end goal shouldn’t be to get them to behave. We want to teach kids the skills they need, which goes back to executive functioning, how to regulate yourself. So, there’s times when, if you need to have a tantrum or you need to yell, or you need to go for a walk, how can you ask for what you need? But then that’s why I go to schools and teachers to help them to change the educational system, to give kids this opportunity.
Because most of our school systems are not built to help kids do this, because they do it and they get punished for it. They get put out of the school, and they get sent to alternative school. They get labeled as a behavior problem.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Whoop preach.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
And so, we need to change the school systems, because many of our school systems are very old and the way that we handle behavior concerns. And, it’s very much a punishment-based system because we’re trying to get kids to sit, to listen, to not talk over the teacher. And yes, those things are quite important because we want to teach kids not to have chaos in the school environment, but at the same time. But if they’re not, if they’re not regulated and they don’t know how to really manage themselves, are we really being successful? If on the surface they’re well behaved.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
That such a good point. Because I know kindergarten that’s my biggest hang up with the school system is that these kids are coming from environments that weren’t an eight-hour school day setting. And, they placed them in the setting and expect them to then sit for eight hours and listen without moving. And like, it’s just not realistic. And then, they’re sent to us and say the school is saying, Oh, you, the child has ADHD. They need to be put on medication. And it’s like, no, a child just needs a break.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Right. And, to do things that are different, that’s why I say no. I tell teachers cater to the different learning styles. So, do things that are just lecture, then have things that are video music going outside and doing projects, hands on individual and group work, standing desks, medicine balls, like doing a variety of things and moving in a variety of ways to make it interesting, make learning fun. Because, you can’t keep teaching as if all kids learn and process things the same way because they don’t. And, when you think about one in five, children have a mental health disorder. Because that’s the stats, one in five kids has anxiety, depression, ADHD, some behavioral disorder, Tourette’s one in five. So, that means that you’re going to have several kids in your classroom that has a mental health diagnosis. So, if you’re trying to teach all of them as if all of them are neuro-typical, then you are going to have more behavior problems because they’re not feeling like you’re teaching to their unique needs.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Ooh, like you are preaching here today. And, I will keep on here all day talking about, because this is my passion topic and something that, I’m always talking to the schools about, but I’m not going to do that, and it’s harder.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
And it’s hard because, they do have to modify and change, and we’re going to keep seeing problems unless they do.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
And, it definitely is a system issue. It needs to be changed. Now, I’m working on that people, but thank you for dropping so many gems today. So, what resources and advice do you have for parents or recommend to parents?

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
So, let’s see, I think there’s a few resources. I think that it’s important to make sure that you are connected to Facebook groups, Instagram, website sas well that really talk about the concerns that you’re looking for. So, there’s a few so highly sensitive person, a really good resource because she is one that has done a lot of resource research on this as Elaine Aron. And so, she does a lot of stuff on a highly sensitive kid. And, I think there’s another one that I like a lot attitude magazine. And, they are really great resource for a lot of things on everything ADHD. They have tons of really good stuff. Another one that I like is self_reg. It’s Instagram page self_ reg. They talk about this self-regulation. They have a ton of free resources and information on that. And, I like them a whole bunch, but really if you do a search on Instagram, specifically on parent coaching or parent coaches, those are you can find a lot of good resources on there. And there’s some really good people who are doing some valuable work as well too. And then I have my eBooks and my resources on my page at Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart. And, I do a lot of stuff on all things parenting related to not just ADHD, but also anxiety, highly sensitive kids, all those different things as well.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. And, we will have all of that in the show notes as well. And, where can we find you on social media? And, I highly recommend you follow her because her Instagram page is amazing.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Thank you. So, on Instagram it’s dr.annlouise.lockhart and then, my Facebook is a A New Day Pediatric Psychology. And then, my website is anewdaysa as in San Antonio.com. So www.anewdaysa.com. And, those are probably the places that I post most is Facebook, Instagram, and then on my website.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Thank you so much for being on the episode today, and sharing all this valuable information with us.

Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart:
Thank you. I really appreciate the invitation. I really enjoy talking to you, but all of these things.

Maria Davis-Pierre:
Yes. And thank you all for listening, and we will see you on the next episode of the podcast.